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  #21  
Old 04-February-2010, 07:06 PM
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Protected Wreck Sites

UK Designated Wreck Sites © Vince Griffin, English Heritage The Protection of Wrecks Act (1973) allows the Government to designate a wreck to prevent uncontrolled interference. Designated sites are identified as being likely to contain the remains of a vessel, or its contents, which are of historical, artistic or archaeological importance.
A 'Statutory Instrument' identifies the location of the site and also the extent of the restricted area used to ensure the protection of the site. In some cases the site is indicated by a buoy, usually yellow and inscribed Protected Wreck. Suitably placed notices sometimes indicate sites close to the shore. Some are warning signs; and others are public information notices giving a brief explanation of why the wreck is important and a description of the site. All protected wrecks are listed in the annual Admiralty Notices to Mariners and are marked on appropriate UK Hydrographic Office charts.
It is a criminal offence do any of the following in a designated area without a licence granted by the appropriate Secretary of State:
  • Tamper with, damage or remove any part of a vessel lying wrecked on or in the seabed or any object formerly contained in such a vessel.
  • Carry out diving or salvage operations directed to the exploration of any wreck or to removing objects from it or from the seabed, or uses equipment constructed or adapted for any purpose of diving or salvage operations. This is likely to include deployment of remotely operated vehicles.
  • Deposit anything including anchors and fishing gear which, if it were to fall on the site, would obliterate, obstruct access to, or damage any part of the site.
It is also an offence to cause or permit any of the above activities to be carried out by others, without a licence, in a restricted area.
Generally speaking licences from the Secretary of State will only be issued to people who are considered:
  • To be competent, and properly equipped, to carry out operations appropriate to the historical and archaeological importance of a wreck and of any objects contained or formerly contained in a wreck,
  • To have any other legitimate reason for doing things in the designated area which can only be done with a licence.
Where a person is authorised by a licence to carry out diving or salvage operations, it is an offence for any other person to obstruct them, or cause or permit them to be obstructed, in doing anything which is authorised by the licence.
Bathing, angling and navigation are permitted within a restricted area provided there is no likelihood of, or intention to, damage the wreck or obstruct work on it. Anchoring on the site is only permitted for licensed activities or in cases of maritime distress
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  #22  
Old 04-February-2010, 07:07 PM
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he Protection of Military Remains Act 1986
This Act makes it an offence to interfere with the wreckage of any crashed, sunken or stranded military aircraft or designated vessel without a licence. This is irrespective of loss of life or whether the loss occurred during peacetime or wartime. All crashed military aircraft receive automatic protection, but vessels must be individually designated. Currently, there are 21 vessels protected under this Act, both in UK waters and abroad, and it is likely that the Ministry of Defence will designate more vessels in the future. There are two levels of protection offered by this Act, designation as a Protected Place or as a Controlled Site.
Protected Placesinclude the remains of any aircraft which crashed while in military service or any vessel designated(by name, not location) which sank or stranded in military service after 4th August 1914. Although crashed military aircraft receive automatic status as a Protected Place, vessels need to be specifically designated by name. The location of the vessel does not need to be known for it to be designated as a Protected Place.
Diving is not prohibited on an aircraft or vessel designated as a Protected Place. However, it is an offence to conduct unlicensed diving or salvage operations to tamper with, damage, remove or unearth any remains or enter any hatch or other opening. Essentially, diving is permitted on a ‘look but don’t touch’ basis only.
Controlled Sitesare specifically designatedareas which encompass the remains of a military aircraft or a vessel sunk or stranded in military service within the last two hundred years. Within the controlled site it is an offence to tamper with, damage, move or unearth any remains, enter any hatch or opening or conduct diving, salvage or excavation operations for the purposes of investigating or recording the remains, unless authorised by licence. The effectively makes diving operations prohibited on these sites without a specific licence.
For further information on this Act and its administration, contact the Ministry of Defence (see useful addresses section).
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  #23  
Old 04-February-2010, 07:11 PM
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More information can be found at Protection of Wrecks Act 1973 and Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 The category Protected Wrecks of the United Kingdom identifies wrecks (ships and others) protected by UK legislation, and the legislation that protects them. Note that the protection can apply to UK sovereign vessels outside UK waters as well as to the vessels of the UK and other nations lying in UK waters. The applicable legislation is:Sites of wrecks in UK territorial waters may be designated as restricted areas by reason of historical, archaeological or artistic interest. The coordinates of the restricted area are stated in the designation. It is illegal to damage such wrecks and a licence is required to dive or investigate such wrecks.Wrecks of military vessels or those in military service, of any nation, that sank after 14 August 1914 in UK territorial waters may be designated as controlled sites. The site is stated in the designation. It is illegal to dive or interfere with such vessels without a licence.Wrecks of UK military vessels or those in UK military service, that sank after 14 August 1914 anywhere in the world may be designated as protected places. It is not necessary for the site of the wreck to be known. The name of the vessel and date of sinking are stated in the designation. Protected sites may be dived but the wreck must not be interfered with, however the legislation for wrecks lying outside UK controlled waters is only enforceable on UK citizens and UK flagged vessels.Wrecks of aircraft are automatically protected as protected places.This has been applied to vessels in Wales and Scotland, but not in England.Three vessels that sank during the Falklands War in waters controlled by the Falklands Islands government are protected under legislation similar to the UK Protection of Wrecks Act 1973. [edit] References
  1. ^ "The Protection of Wrecks Act 1973". Office of Public Sector Information. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatut..._19730033_en_1. Retrieved 2008-08-08.
  2. ^ "The Protection of Military Remains Act 1986". Office of Public Sector Information. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatut..._19860035_en_1. Retrieved 2008-08-08.
  3. ^ "Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas Act 1979". Office of Public Sector Information. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatut..._19790046_en_1. Retrieved 2008-08-08.
  4. ^ Protection of Wrecks Ordnance 1977 (No. 12) 7 July 1977 (Falkland Islands)
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  #24  
Old 04-February-2010, 07:12 PM
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he following 92 pages are in this category, out of 92 total. This list may not reflect recent changes (learn more). A
B
C
D
E
E cont.
F
G
H
I
K
L
M
N
P
P cont.
R
S
T
U
V
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  #25  
Old 04-February-2010, 07:16 PM
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I think that just about covers it all. Click the links for further information. Dont get confused with protected archeological sites and protected military remains sites.
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  #26  
Old 05-February-2010, 09:29 AM
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wreck protection

Thanks for taking the time to post that lot Nick (You must get out more)
When you read the guidelines it all sounds great. I sat in a meeting yesterday and listened to a whole raft of guidelines about establishing Marine conservation zones, some very clever people write these guidelines. My concern is this, wind farms, marine conservation zones, wreck protection to name just three (there is more on the horizon) are all ways or potential ways of restricting our access to the oceans. The fact that a little pressure from the Yanks would see the LST’s designated is interesting, what will a lot of pressure from UNESCO do? My personal opinion and it is just that, is that here in the UK we are stumbling about under ever increasing pressure from many directions. I don’t deny that much of it is well intentioned but the balance is now tipping in favour of the idealists and policy makers with no hands on knowledge or experience. Only time will tell if I am right or just a pillock but I am a firm believer in the thin end of the wedge. Back to designation, when a wreck is designated I still cannot see why Fisguard would take precedence over say HMS Captain. Of course I can see why the old Gairsoppa doesn’t get a look in, as it’s one rule for us and another for the powers that be. However all those guidelines make it sound like everything is in safe hands???
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  #27  
Old 05-February-2010, 12:19 PM
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It'll get even worse if we beome a united states of europe or something similar. And if you think it won't happen, well why are they talking about sharing the armed forces and navy with the French on the news. And before you now it they'll start enforcing the new DIN fitting on nitrox cylinders.
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  #28  
Old 05-February-2010, 01:17 PM
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[*]Protection of Military Remains Act 1986[2][/list]Wrecks of military vessels or those in military service, of any nation, that sank after 14 August 1914 in UK territorial waters may be designated as controlled sites. The site is stated in the designation. It is illegal to dive or interfere with such vessels without a licence.Wrecks of UK military vessels or those in UK military service, that sank after 14 August 1914 anywhere in the world may be designated as protected places. It is not necessary for the site of the wreck to be known. The name of the vessel and date of sinking are stated in the designation. Protected sites may be dived but the wreck must not be interfered with, however the legislation for wrecks lying outside UK controlled waters is only enforceable on UK citizens and UK flagged vessels.Wrecks of aircraft are automatically protected as protected places.[list][*][b]

So how does that work then. "It is not necessary for the site of the wreck to be known". You dive an unkown wreck one day and retrieve the bell, which turns out to be HMS SoAndSo which is protected but its location unkown, thereby identifying the wreck. Unfortunately it is protected under the Military remains Act, and so you throw the Bell away (or maybe even keep it) and don't tell the world for fear of prosecution. So HMS SoAndSo whereabouts remain unknown and the unkown wreck unidentified, helping absolutely no one.

Surely, if you retrieved the bell of HMS SoAndSo, you declare it to ROW, and OK it goes to a museum or something, but you don't get prosecuted. It would be more sensible.
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  #29  
Old 05-February-2010, 01:27 PM
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Ignorance iz no excuse in ze eyes of ze law!

You should obviously ensure zat you haf obtained a permit to dive HMS SoAndSo BEFORE you know you are diving it, and then NOT interfere with the wreck to identify it - as you have already identified it when requesting ze permit...

Simples, no???
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  #30  
Old 05-February-2010, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by The Diving Luddite View Post
Ignorance iz no excuse in ze eyes of ze law!

You should obviously ensure zat you haf obtained a permit to dive HMS SoAndSo BEFORE you know you are diving it, and then NOT interfere with the wreck to identify it - as you have already identified it when requesting ze permit...

Simples, no???
Ah Ha. I shall get a permit to dive HMS SoAndSo. Then on the of chance i happen to dive HMS SoAndSo I'll be OK.

FARCE!

Thinking about it, are there any examples of this.
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  #31  
Old 05-February-2010, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by charlesw View Post
[*]Protection of Military Remains Act 1986[2][/list]Wrecks of military vessels or those in military service, of any nation, that sank after 14 August 1914 in UK territorial waters may be designated as controlled sites. The site is stated in the designation. It is illegal to dive or interfere with such vessels without a licence.Wrecks of UK military vessels or those in UK military service, that sank after 14 August 1914 anywhere in the world may be designated as protected places. It is not necessary for the site of the wreck to be known. The name of the vessel and date of sinking are stated in the designation. Protected sites may be dived but the wreck must not be interfered with, however the legislation for wrecks lying outside UK controlled waters is only enforceable on UK citizens and UK flagged vessels.Wrecks of aircraft are automatically protected as protected places.[list][*][b]

So how does that work then. "It is not necessary for the site of the wreck to be known". You dive an unkown wreck one day and retrieve the bell, which turns out to be HMS SoAndSo which is protected but its location unkown, thereby identifying the wreck. Unfortunately it is protected under the Military remains Act, and so you throw the Bell away (or maybe even keep it) and don't tell the world for fear of prosecution. So HMS SoAndSo whereabouts remain unknown and the unkown wreck unidentified, helping absolutely no one.

Surely, if you retrieved the bell of HMS SoAndSo, you declare it to ROW, and OK it goes to a museum or something, but you don't get prosecuted. It would be more sensible.
Why was nothing done about the Russians blowing HMS MATABELE in half to lay an oil pipeline off Murmansk? 198 crew lost Why didnt the Government get involved? Maybe because it wasn't that important or too far away? It just makes the war grave issue a joke. charlesw im glad some people can see through the government & Co and what they are doing!
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  #32  
Old 05-February-2010, 08:28 PM
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Charles hasn't quite got to the sucking up stage as he hasn't actually found anything yet.
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Old 05-February-2010, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by salsettediving View Post
Charles hasn't quite got to the sucking up stage as he hasn't actually found anything yet.


Salsettediving Whats your input on the Matabele issue?
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  #34  
Old 05-February-2010, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunnitert View Post
Salsettediving Whats your input on the Matabele issue?

Matabele HMS was a British Royal Navy Tribal Class Destroyer of 1,870 tons built in 1939 by Scotts, Freenock, Yard No 568 for the Admiralty. She was powered by a steam turbine giving 44,000hp and 36 knots.

At 22.21 hours on 17 January 1942, HMS Matabele (G 26), escorting convoy PQ-8, was hit by one torpedo from U-454 in the stern, which caused her magazines to blow up and the ship sank within two minutes off Kola Inlet, Barents Sea.

Her depth charges detonated and killed many survivors in the water, while others were frozen to death by the icy waters. 198 killed and 2 survivors.

As she was so close inshore and clearly well inside Russian territorial waters I very much doubt there was much we could do about it. I am surprised you did not cite HMS Edinburgh as an example. I dont see any of the previous comments undermining the principals of the systems of protection we have in force. Clearly in certain instances it has to be the best of a difficult job. No you cant enforce underwater adherence to the law. How could you? In Australia, though, the dive leader is duty bound to report any infringement and concerning the Yongala has actually done co. I am sure we would never see the law so rigorously applied here. Concerning Charles's comment about advance protection surely why not? It would be a fat lot of good the other way around after the wreck had been pulled to pieces then mysteriously identified. Sure you bring up a bell from an unknown. Clean it up, hey presto its a " War Grave ". Not your problem. Declare it in the usual way . Let them sort it out. Do you get full compensation for something valuable you find in the street. Hell no. A small reward if you are lucky.To be honest whilst I am on that soapbox I believe it should be mandatory to include a photo with your ROW droit ( Becky wake up ! ).They do ask for one I know. But its not a must. Wrecksite could have an arrangement with the ROW whereby they include all those photos in their artifacts section. Then we all get to see what has been legitimately found and declared for all the wrecks. What a help for the researcher that would be.( Where is the bloody Claverley plate ? ).So yes. Its easy to sit back and nit pick the system. Course its not perfect. You cant say its not diver friendly though. We get to keep well over %90 of what we find.( I dont know the official figure). We are financially compensated for anything belonging to somebody else. We may be asked to loan or donate the item to a museum.
( I still have the Edam plate , cant give it away ! ). We have access to every wreck in the UK bar a few dozen. Some of those are " historic " and have little interest to your average diver. So the Fisgard is now " protected ". You cant go inside it. Big deal, its upside down and dangerous in there anyway. Nothing to see. Been there done it wouldn't want to do it again. Nothing lost.
It seems odd to me that some of the people seemingly in dispute with the system hail from the Scillies. You dont get mainland divers carping on about it. It also seems to me that most of the so called archeological stuff from over there ends up on eBay anyway. So ultimately what really do we have to moan about? Perceived threats from elsewhere, thin end of the wedge. Who can say we shall have to wait and see. As things stand now are we really inconvenienced? Put on in any way? Unfairly restricted in what we love doing. " They " need us. The amateurs. The ones that take the risks and answer the questions. We do all the work for nothing and " they " know it. Do you see metal detecting banned? No. They make most of the finds. How can you really gripe about the tiniest of sacrifices we make to preserve something for diving's next generation.
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Old 06-February-2010, 10:46 AM
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Not being secretive and taking all to the grave then ---
NO--but i might take them to the `ale house`, my records will prob be given to `weymouth maritime museum`
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Old 06-February-2010, 10:51 AM
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Now I wasnt going to say that. Too late now. Ive thought it for a long while.
The tiniest pressure from our " allies " over the water and that would be it.
Look what happened with Edam. The minute the Dutch spoke up it became a Heritage site. It wouldnt have happened otherwise. Still as long as both remain " protected " but with diver access I dont see a problem. I feel sure we have talked about all this before.
if you hadn`t have contacted the dutch maritime museum they wouldn`t have known where it was an then it wouldn`t have become a heritage site, as i said before -i dont give out numbers
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  #37  
Old 06-February-2010, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
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if you hadn`t have contacted the dutch maritime museum they wouldn`t have known where it was an then it wouldn`t have become a heritage site, as i said before -i dont give out numbers

Lets keep everything secret then. Not tell anybody about anything.

Shant put anything else on this thread cus its like beating yer head against the wall.
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  #38  
Old 07-February-2010, 05:07 PM
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Protection is one thing- its the making you apply for a soddin licence in order to visit these sites that pisses me off! Theres four "protected" sites here and at one point- on two of em- they even wanted people like me reporting to other licence holders. This meant that one member of the general public was having to report to another member of the general public in order to make a visit!! I mean- does anyone report to other members of the public at the times etc they go and visit stone henge or other such world heritage sites- its f*@#in ridiculous!! I told em to stuff it.

Protect if they must but drop the licence system I say!!

Incidentally- the person they wanted me to report to was pulled up for illegally removing stuff from one of these protected sites
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Old 08-February-2010, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by salsettediving View Post
Charles hasn't quite got to the sucking up stage as he hasn't actually found anything yet.
Apart from my water tank.....

Any way might give up on serious spidgeing and get one of these underwater camera jobs. Keithy got one small HD one from USA for £200. Really good for id of wrecks, sucha as:- "oh I can't remember how many cylinders on the engine... ah I'll just look at my video".
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Old 09-February-2010, 08:34 PM
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I have to admit this is a bit of legislation that I just cannot get my head around. I'm all for remembering what people did for this country and the greater good etc; I just find it hard to see how we have ended up with an increasing number of designated sites.

The example of not building on a battlefield is a good one, the building still takes place but people don't forget.

Anyhow, I spent the last few years in Orkney, it has it's fair share of designated sites. The link below is a good read,

http://www.gwpda.org/naval/vanfrank.htm

this wreck is now a controlled site?

Even the Royal Oak has no props.

What I find frustrating is that it is not the people who were present at the time campaining for these sites it's people 60, 70, 80 and 90 years later?

I'm of the opinion that we should be allowed to visit these sites and pay them the respect they are due in the same way we would if we were visiting Flanders or the Normandy beeches etc. The reality nowadays is that there are far more divers armed with digital cameras than there are with crowbars.

Kieran
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